Back to Basics

Honzo

Sound advice. While I am adamantly opposed to the people who advocate for 3rd grade level structure as the general standard for prose, I do believe that if you can’t write correctly at that level, your longer and more elaborate structures are likely to be seriously flawed.

I would add another ‘basic’ that few young writers seem to pay much attention to: Learn the art of writing what you know. If you don’t know anything worth writing about, it will show. I imagine that the young Eliza was, as I was, in a somewhat different environment that young writers today, in that relatively little of our life experience, brief though it was, was mediated through the words and ideas of others. Too many writers think that they can learn everything they know about life from novels, movies and the internet, but they end up producing derivative tripe that doesn’t stand comparison with writing more grounded in reality. Knowing everything there is about the Third Age is not the same as having serious knowledge of real historical cultures and languages. Writers need to work with raw material, not the processed food of other writers.

Gurgmaster

I kind of agree, but I’d issue a caution alongside your advice.

Yes, there are people on here trying to communicate ideas that are above their current skills and also just a reminder to get back to basics is great. My first plot I played with here was too complicated. It’s always a good reminder – KISS.

However, there are people who will crit when they genuinely don’t like your genre. Some really do not take effort to understand what is going on, and are just racking up credits. Some don’t actually know what they’re talking about and others are just downright rude people who love dishing out their opinion.

So I think it’s really important to balance crits against each other. If everyone is saying they just don’t get it, then fine - chances are it’s you. But if you have a few people reading along happily, picking you up where they get lost and making suggestions, then be happy. If one or two straybees then wander in at Chapter 20, all guns blazing, then my advice is to read what they say, consider it carefully, look at their work to see if it’s any good but don’t be scared to ignore them.

I’d just caution against reading too much into a few negative crits. Remember that one person not liking your story doesn’t mean it’s not good. Lots of people hate Stephen King and JK Rowling, but they do okay.

Jacksavage

Yup. Doing the basics well can be the basis of a succesful writing career.

Lngwstksgk

There’s some old saw in writing along the lines of: If someone tells you something is wrong with your writing, they are usually right. If they tell you how to fix it, they are usually wrong.

It can definitely be a challenge to figure out WHAT is wrong or how to correct it, but I have found that most critiques, even one-off angry ones that seem to dislike me on principle, aren’t completely out to lunch. There is something there, and if I work with it, I can make my writing stronger.

Honzo

“Everyone is a teacher, if you’re a learner.”

Gurgmaster

I’d agree if that person has taken the time to read. Sometimes it’s obvious they have not. The moot is usually, I suppose.

I’ve had several crits where it is quite clear that the critter hasn’t read the content with any attention at all. I’ve had plenty who’ve dived into Chapter 10 and started gobbing off (aggressively) about how I haven’t defined a character well enough. Yeah, nah - I did that in Chapters 1 to 9.

I’ve also had quite aggressive crits on here from people who are quite clueless in their own writing.

Anyway, the point is not to get downhearted after a few bad crits.

Lngwstksgk

Haha, OK yeah, people who pop in chapter thirty-something and complain the backstory isn’t clear are not included in my previous comment. Sometimes criticisms really ARE off base, but it still merits careful consideration every time to make sure I don’t have blinders on myself.

I have had some comments that were SO wrong I still laugh about them, but won’t repeat them here.

Honzo

I think ‘every time’ might be excessive. Hopefully we are able to identify patterns without having to recalculate the entire problem every time.

Gurgmaster

My favourite was a comment I received on, if I recall rightly, Chapter 5 … clearly labelled as such … “This is a strange place to start a story”

Even then, I cast a thought to that problem, as I wasn’t confident about my starting point … five chapters ago

Jacksavage

Some critters appear terrified of backstory, as if its inclusion means you have started in the wrong place. I see plenty of published works with backstory in Chapter 1. There are as many ways to start a novel as there are to die.

Every published novel I attempt to read has backstory in Act 1. Why? Because backstory in Act 1 is part of a novel’s structure.

Unfortunately, reading a novel to its conclusion for the first time in twenty years only served to remind me why I don’t read. The author is worth a cool 5 million, btw.

And the most recent one I picked up is so basic I could have read it aged 6. I have tried to start it twice, and chucked it both times. Basics are great, but we are writing for adults. This author is also worth 5 million.

Reading these gives me hope.

Patrickmil

There’s a saying in addiction recovery circles that’s applicable here: if you don’t stop practicing the basics, you don’t have to start over.

While we all have voices and styles and intentions when we put “pen to paper” we also have to remember that other people (who aren’t in our heads, don’t have the same life experience, and may understand some words differently than we do) have to read what we write. There’s a reason “the basics” are called the basics. They form the foundation upon which everything else follows.

Imjustdru

Take 'em to church!

Dougp

I like your emphasis on storytelling, which is a separate skill from writing. I wish more crits focused on the elements of storytelling (which admittedly is best accomplished across the span of multiple chapters).